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Lessons in Hate: Kansas edition. With special guest ZouDave from Rock M Nation

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The Men of Mizzou check in on the way to the SEC to instruct us in the ways of hating Kansas, and just couldn't resist laying the Jayhawks out one more time.  (Photo by Jamie Squire/Getty Images)
The Men of Mizzou check in on the way to the SEC to instruct us in the ways of hating Kansas, and just couldn't resist laying the Jayhawks out one more time. (Photo by Jamie Squire/Getty Images)
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It's Kansas week here on Frogs O' War, and so far we've featured what they've been up to for the last 100+ years or so as well as the specifics of what they'll look like when we play them in week two this year. That's all well and good, but this is a team with a long history and a passionate fanbase (at least in basketball season)- and that fanbase is probably going to piss you off at some point in our conference affiliation with them. When that day comes, you're going to have to know how to hate Kansas. Not just Charlie Weiss, not just the football team, the whole university- and if necessary, the whole state. To explain just how to hate Kansas, we turned to the best in the business at hating Kansas- Missouri fans from the Missouri SBNation homeboard Rock M Nation, who as one of their last official acts of Big 12 membership have sent over favorite son ZouDave to teach us the ways of hating Kansas. Make the jump if you will, as we learn to hate from a state that hates the University of Kansas so much they once burned the city of Lawrence to the ground.

HawkeyedFrog: Thanks for joining us ZouDave. I originally got in touch with Rock M Big Chief Bill Connelly, so I was initially surprised to hear from you.

ZouDave: Bill has asked me to fill in for him on this since I'm a native Kansas Citian with a lifelong hatred for all things kansas and ku, and he's way too cool to stoop to the level of the Big XII anymore...wait, that was the part he told me to leave out. My bad. He asked that I please extend his deepest apologies but he is, what was it..."off saving the rain forests from cancer robots." I don't know, it's what he said.

HawkeyedFrog: Well thanks for picking up the hate-stick and let's get right into it. What do you hate about Kansas the State? Other than its proximity to Missouri, obviously. The huge government subsidies to corn growers to keep Charlie Weiss and Mark Mangino so thoroughly plump?

ZouDave: What's to like? My hatred for the state of kansas, and Missouri's hatred for the state of kansas, goes back a long, long time. I don't want to bore your readers with the whole history (well, actually I do absolutely want to do that but I'll just assume you don't) but the states were fighting a war against each other long before the US Civil War officially started. As early as 1854, the border cities of Missouri and kansas were invading each other, stealing, pillaging, burning, doing horrible things. The ill feelings between the states has just simply never gone away, and I don't think it ever will. One of the things I hate most about this is that Missourians tend to understand what our place and time was in history, and we don't cover it up or make excuses for it. It's the past, and we've evolved. You ask a kansas about their state's history, you'd think you were getting a description of heaven itself. A place of unfettered dreams and opportunities where everyone strove for peace and harmony, a place of equality, a place of joy. I really don't want to drag this thing down before it gets started, but to suffice to say that's not the case. There's a reason that the United States Supreme Court had to force that state to integrate its schools in the 1950s. There's a reason that Fred Phelps and his band of crazies exists in the state of kansas. Their official state motto is "kansas: as big as you think." Those of us on the right side of the state line know it should be "kansas: as bigoted as you think."

For those interested, go read up on General Ewing's "General Order No. 11" of 1863. My family was rooted in that part of Missouri at the time. We haven't forgotten.

Plus, it just smells bad over there.

HawkeyedFrog: We're mostly used to the Baylor-esque level of church craziness., there's a reason they're based in Waco you know. What do you hate about Kansas the University? Missourians felt strongly enough about it to burn it down before any athletic contests were played between your two schools, so it must hold some sort of ancestral evil.

ZouDave: As I said above, yeah there's ancestral hate at the root of this. The reason Missourian's road with Quantrill and his men to lawrence on August 21, 1863, was for revenge. Federal troops known as kansas jayhawkers, signified by bright red leggings that they wore, had come into border Missouri towns (keep in mind Missouri was still officially a part of the same Union that kansas was in) and raided, burned, looted, pillaged and murdered. Then a bunch of Missouri guerrilla's mothers, sisters and daughters were put into a jail in Kansas City and that jail mysteriously collapsed and killed almost all of them inside. lawrence, ks, was the then headquarters of these federal troops and staging area for the incursions into Missouri. So, that's where the raid had to target.

The university itself is pretty easy to hate. First of all, they have a spot on campus called "Mount Oread". Below is that location...let me know when you see the mountain.

No go ahead, I've got time.

The people of the university claim they are "Harvard on the Kaw" (the Kaw being a river in the area). I...don't think they have much in common with Harvard, other than they claim their school colors are "crimson and blue". Just because you call it "crimson" doesn't make it not "red", you pretentious jerks.

Plus, it just smells bad over there.

HawkeyedFrog: Claims to have a lot in common with Harvard and their school colors are crimson and blue? Now they're starting to sound like SMU. This hate is growing faster than I expected. What do you hate about the Jayhawk sports teams? We understand they're quite good at the game with the orange ball and the hoops. What are the odds that catches on, though?

ZouDave: First, there's a flaw in your question. You asked what I hate about the jayhawk sports "teams"? Plural? Since when have they had a team in anything besides basketball? Because I doubt you'll find much evidence to the contrary. ku athletics begins and ends with their basketball program. They will continue to not shut up about their 2007 football season and their ripping Orange Bowl victory, but in that 12-1 season they beat exactly one ranked team (Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl) and only played like 3 teams that ended the year with a winning record (Mizzou being one of them, and we beat them and never even trailed in the game). Oooh, but they've been to a BCS bowl! Yeah, congrats on that. Since that BCS Bowl they've won something like 8 conference games or something like that. Seriously. So, yeah, that did a lot for them. So basically it's about hating their basketball team because it's not worth the effort to hate things that basically don't exist; I don't hate the female cheerleaders at Texas A&M, either.

And there is PLENTY to hate about their basketball team, starting most recently with Thomas Robinson. I have never seen a player so in love with himself that he has to celebrate every single dunk, block, pass, dribble, whatever, every single time he was on the floor. He was in a constant state of flex trying to show up every opponent, even some he never played against, and he made it a habit of "accidentally" stomping on the chests of opposing big men when they would end up on the floor in games. Bill Self and his aggressively fake hair and "aw, shucks, I didn't know these players never graduated from high school (Darrell Arthur)" and "aw, shucks, I didn't know these players never went to class (Sherron Collins)" "They're just good keeds that need basketball in their life." The most phony, duplicitous, jerkoff of a S$-eating grin you'll ever see. From Aaron Miles to Ryan Robertson to the ugliest player I've ever seen Patrick Richey, there's just so much to hate about their team. Heck, even their alleged football team hates their basketball team as there was a big inter-sport brawl on campus a couple of years ago. The basketball team won, of course, but probably because they got all of the whistles. They always do.

HawkeyedFrog: Basketball hate? Man, what a conference we've been transported into. You also touched on the high and mighty attitude for their one successful football season where they didn't even win their division or conference (like Baylor again!) so what do you hate about Kansas fans?

ZouDave: no amount of hatred I could describe about their basketball team would be complete without their absolutely useless fans. It's everything you said in your question, only so much more. Do not really ever even bother to try to talk historical facts with these people (because first of all, that's not allowed in the state of kansas anyway: If you ask a kansas fan, they absolutely invented the game of basketball. Just because all of the history books tell you that James Naismith invented the game in 1891 in Springfield, Massachusetts, don't let that bother you ku fans! You know that he actually did it in 1898 when he became your first head coach. All of those other basketball games played before 1898? A conspiracy of lies, just like evolution. Chant loud enough and you can't hear your opposition, and that means you win.

There's no other way to describe these people besides a cult. It's exactly what they are. From the chant, to the hive mind, to the uniform clothing, to the willingness to kill themselves as soon as their team comes crashing down to a lower-seeded team in March (ironic coming from a Mizzou fan this year, I know) these people are a cult. They have an inexplicable belief that they are better than you because they cheer for kansas basketball. The overwhelming majority of them never even went to the school (despite it admitting anyone as long as you're a resident of kansas...NO DEAL, SUCKER!) and don't cheer for them in any other sport, but they will wear their kansas basketball shirts year round to any event of any kind. Royals games, Chiefs games, Sporting KC games, Mizzou bowl games (think I'm kidding?, out for a night on the town at the bars in KC, I even saw one at a wedding recently. It's just sad, because honestly this is the thing most of them take the most pride in for their entire lives. I know so many ku fans that just simply can't have a conversation without trying to change the subject to how their basketball team is going to do next year, or possibly just to remind me as a Mizzou fan that they're better than us at basketball. And while they'll tell you, you won't even have to ask, that they're the classiest fans in all of the land...tell me why another key feature in the ku fan wardrobe is the shirt that says "Muck Fizzou" on it? We've had people spot a ku fan wearing their "Muck Fizzou" shirt while on vacation in Italy. It takes a special kind of sad to pack a t-shirt for a vacation in Italy that is not even pro-your favorite team, it's anti-your arch rival. The arch-rival they won't play anymore because we left the conference. "Rivalries are for conference games only." I bet that comes as news to TCU and Baylor fans for these past 16 years, or to Florida and Florida State fans, etc.

HawkeyedFrog: We actually know how you tigers feel on that. We too had one of the longest running rivalries in college football interrupted by conference realignment, and it took a decade to get the bears to play us again. Any other categories or stories of hate that don't fit in elsewhere? What's the best way to tweak a Jayhawk fan if they get beligerent?

ZouDave: Oh I've probably covered enough, because I could go on for hours. I described for a Texas A&M radio show once my hatred for ku by saying "Before I knew a lot of things, I knew I hated kansas." It's what any respectable Missourian should do. I believe that "Ride With the Devil" and "The Outlaw Josey Wales" should be required viewing in all Missouri schools. Oh, speaking of that, there was an elementary school in Lee's Summit, MO, (a suburb of KC) whose principal decided it was a good idea to play the ku fight song over the PA system in March as a way to "celebrate the jayhawks' run at the national title". BAD, BAD idea. It got all kinds of negative press in KC, the school board reprimanded the principal, it was an ordeal. And just a month or so ago there was an attempt to start a movement in the Missouri state legislature to allow for the ku alumni association to have an official Missouri State License Plate that featured the jayhawk logo ( The movement AGAINST this was huge, sweeping and devastating (the way I'd describe most women from kansas) as the emails, letters and phone calls poured in from across the state from not even just pro-Mizzou people, but people who know the history between the states. There's just NO WAY a state-issued license plate should ever bear the jayhawk logo, not after the history between these two states. The potential move before it even became official was blocked. One our state representatives had this to say:

"The athletic rivalry between MU and KU has been very important to both states and especially the Kansas City region," said Rep. Steven Webber, D-Columbia. "It is a shame that KU leaders have chosen to abandon more than a century of tradition by refusing to compete against Mizzou for the foreseeable future. This snub makes now the absolutely wrong time for Missouri to honor Kansas with a specialty license plate."

If you want to tweak a jayhawk when they get belligerent, just start questioning their Helms National Championships that they claim. They claim to be 5-time National Champions in basketball, when in reality it's 3*. Two of them, from the 1920s, were awarded something like 15+ years after-the-fact by some arbitrary measure that was subject to nothing but the whims of one person. In at least one of those two seasons, Missouri actually finished with a better record and beat them head-to-head, but they still have the banners flying in their barnhouse of a gym (just like they still fly the Big XII North Champions 2007 banner at their football field, despite not winning the North that year). And their 3* NCAA Tournament victories are tainted as well because after winning in 1952 (I think), they went on probation the next year for cheating. After winning it in 1988, they weren't even allowed into the NCAA tournament the next year because they were on probation for cheating. They were actually already on probation for cheating when they won it in 2008 using an ineligible player or two, but nothing is going to come of that because they're a sacred cow. Oh how I love to remind them they're nowhere nearly as sacred as real basketball schools like the SEC's own Kentucky Wildcats :)

HawkeyedFrog: Quality Hate from a quality guy. Many thanks to ZouDave and Rock M Nation for the Q&A, and best of luck to them in the SEC- and thanks for voting us into the the Big 12 before leaving yourselves. make sure you check out Rock M Nation for any and all things Mizzou related.